Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we do, I believe, try to do some monitoring of that, and I'm not sure if I have that in front of me. I'll see if the deputy minister or the director might, please.
Deputy minister.
Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair. So I don't have the statistics on hand with how many -- how often we meet that 30-day standard or don't meet that 30-day standard. But I would tell the Member that we are aware of issues with processing those claims on a timely basis or meeting that standard, and we have added two new benefits officers to help with the demand. So that's in this budget. And so we do believe that we will be improving our -- the number -- the amount of times we meet that standard. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
I would hope that there would be an offer somewhere to provide me the most current stats. I would ask that first question.
Thank you. I'll go back to the finance Minister.
Happy to do that, Mr. Chair.
I'll go back to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you. Can the Minister provide sort of like a bar graph on the size of claims; so in other words, a bar saying we have 300 employees who have claimed under a hundred dollars; we have had, say, 40 percent claimed by, you know, from $100 to $500, and 10 percent -- you know, however the math works in a bar graph. And the reason I say that is because to make sure it's not perceived as a useless exercise, which I'm not in favour of sending the department on wild goose chases just for my entertainment.
What I'm hearing from constituents and GNWT employees is we have several thousand dollars outstanding for more than 30 days, more than 60 days, some in the range of 90 days -- by the way, that's my next question -- is the fact that these people cannot afford to carry these types of costs. So I would -- as an MLA, I'm confident in sometimes saying no. Not always, but I'm -- you know, if somebody says to me, well, I've waited two weeks for $10, I mean, like, I'd look at them and say, okay. But when I'm hearing people saying, I have $2,000 or more dollars outstanding for three months, for some people that's a mortgage payment, some people that's more than a mortgage payment, some people that is the difference between making a good go and a not. So that's -- so I'm going to start with the dollar value. And then followed by the second question is can we find out how many -- the averages of how many -- you know, how many people have waited for time. So in other words, two graphs, so we can get some good sense. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we'll be able to provide that level of detail. I mean, I -- a little bit hesitant in that it's fairly specific numbers that were being proposed. But, again, we do track the 30-day mark. We do track how far behind we are on a 30-day mark of standard to provide refunds. And, yes, I believe we can break down what is owed individually, and I suppose -- let me leave it at that, Mr. Chair, and we'll see where we get. I also don't want to run into a situation where the breakdown results in it being identifiable if it's too particular and then we're identifying people who had medical travel. So we will provide a level of detail, and I have every confidence that the Member will let me know if it's not detailed enough. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go back to the Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First I'll say I appreciate what sounds like an offer. I would say no, I don't want every detail, I want ranges, and I will leave it up to the competent people in Finance who can come up with some reasonable dates for ranges. I don't want every day as in this -- ten people waited one day, 200 people waited three days; that's a lot of work. But I would like to see, we'll call it responsible responses, and I'll leave it up to the department to say -- define days and define numbers. So that's two different separate pieces of information so I can look at it that way. So I'll start with that, and then I have another question. Just to reaffirm, I'm not asking for 50 payments or hundreds of pages. I'm literally looking for one or two pages of ranges. Thank you. Just to clarify.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I -- it sounds like we can put something together without too much difficulty, so happy to make the commitment. And, really, go from what we were providing, you know, again, we want it to be useful. There's a large number of -- large volume of these requests, and they've gone up over the last few years so they are adding some new officers. I do want folks to hear us saying that. It is a medical -- or it is a benefit for the public service and I know it's -- is one that's relied upon so want that message to be clear, but also there continues to be a lot of work in this space. So we'll -- yes, we'll make sure and get what I think is the ranges that are being requested. But I'm also -- I am happy to have a back and forth. If there's a little more we can provide to make this useful, I don't think there's any harm in saying that we'd be open to that. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you. I'm sure we're going to find a middle here. And, again, I credit the competencies of the department so I have every belief that they'll provide responsible, useable information, and I want them to know I -- the next question is that -- what does the person do to action their claim?
So back to I know a few circumstances -- I don't need to go through every scenario but, you know, people are owed a lot of money for a lot of months. They call, nothing happens, and all of a sudden, you know -- yeah, like, why do we need political intervention for what should be an internal problem? And, frankly, that's how I view it. So what systems are being in place to help action these things? So in other words, if, by way of example -- I'm just trying to frame a context. So if a travel claim hasn't -- is showing up in the financial system -- I'm not connected to it, maybe I am, I don't know. It's not something I use. But regular day-to-day employees know how to use this system. They know where things are. I'm not using the right language because I don't use it. But I do know they can look it up and say something's been approved, it's processed. So if someone hasn't seen something actioned within two weeks, then who do they call? I don't want them to call their MLA. And I don't mean I don't want to hear from my constituents. But, I mean, what really should be an administrative manner without it personally feeling like they're pissing people off or stressing the system or making people angry or whatever you want to say. And then who do they call after four weeks that it's still pending into the nothing noted. And then we get into 8, and then we get into 12.
So Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to find out a good remedy for this particular situation and a way that we can have productive employees. Because if they're having a lot of money outstanding, it's quite stressful. And by the time they get to an MLA, we sign the consent form, we send to the department -- this is not a regular occurrence for me but the problem is it's a process. It's a process. A process. And all of a sudden two more weeks are added to it. So what can the Minister do just to say help deal with the internal side of this challenge so it doesn't have to become a political one? Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, Mr. Chair, there is, again, a very, very high volume of requests for medical travel support over the course of a year, and fortunately, most do not come to a political level. I do get a handful of BFs or inquiries from colleagues in this room through the course of the year. It's certainly -- but it is not -- it's not hundreds that I'm receiving. The vast thousands do go through a usual process and/or -- and even if there are problems -- and I'm not saying there's not problems that don't come to all of us, but that they are able to go through the usual processes. It's pretty operational, so I'm going to suggest this go to the deputy for kind of a step by step description that can hopefully help. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, it's pretty straightforward. So the person that contacts you to arrange for the travel is your point of contact. So that's the person you should contact first. You can also escalate that to the director of FESS, so that's Financial Employee Shared Services, and, you know -- and then I guess you could take it to your MLA, but -- I agree with the Member that that shouldn't be the -- that shouldn't be the case, well, ever, but it should be very rare. So we will take -- we are aware of those concerns, and we will ensure through internal communications, that GNWT employees know how they can contact the government to get an update on the status of their repayment. So we'll take that back and think of a way of communicating that a little better. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go -- I got one small, quick question from the Member from YK Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate my colleagues as well for this extra second. What would it take to bring it down to a -- say, a two-week standard as opposed to a 30-day standard? Again, recognizing that some of this is a lot of money, is there a way to practically do that just because of how much money can be outstanding for some people given -- well, I don't have to go at length, Mr. Chairman. That's only my question is, what would it take for the department to do that? Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Mr. Chair, I mean, I guess I'd have to start with the first question which was around getting the data of how far we are behind, if when we're behind, and what that sort of level of being behind is. I will put a plug in, Mr. Chair, that -- because, again, we want to make sure we're meeting our 30 days before we start to look at 14 days. If individuals, if staff know that they've gone for medical that they're going to have a particularly large incurrence, a particularly large impact from whether it's the nature -- length of travel, nature of treatment, whatever it might be, it is possible to do cash advances. And I've seen that certainly come through at times where, again, a person would go to their benefits officer and have a discussion around what the circumstances are and whether an advance is required or necessary and would certainly want to include or encourage people to consider that. Generally, it is paid upfront, but if -- again, if there's circumstances that are changing in their life or changing in the course of treatment, it is possible to get it in upfront and to have something advanced. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I got three more speakers. What we'll do is we'll take a five-minute break to give the translators a short break and then resume in about five minutes. Thank you.
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Order. We'll continue on. Next on my list I have is the Member from Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And pardon me, I have a little cough drop in my mouth.
I want to -- he's not here at the moment, but I want to thank the Member from Yellowknife Centre for raising all those questions just now. I would also like to talk about the GNWT medical travel assistance. I was hoping that finance could provide more details about the $7.4 million increase, especially noting that last year's was a reduction from the 2023-2024 of approximately the same amount. So I'm just wondering why it's going back up. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, let me send that first to the deputy minister, please.
Thank you. I'll go to the deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I might have to refer this to the director. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the director.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can you please repeat the question.
Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Great Slave.
Certainly, not a problem. So in this year -- I'm looking at main estimate, page 178 -- the total estimate for medical travel assistance is $20,232,000. In the main estimates of 2024-2025, it was at $13,088,000. And then in the fiscal year prior to that, we have an amount of $20,295,000. So it's kind of like a bouncing ball. It was high, it went back to -- it went down, and now it's back up again, and I was just wondering what the rationale for all of that was. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the director.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We did a kind of an estimate cost year to date, and it's right now at approximately $17 million and we're not completing the year. The costs are mainly due to increased travel costs due to flight routes, overall increases in accommodations, and per diems due to changes in flight routes, and just increasing cost overall. And also we have an increase in the number of staff in the public service, so that also drives up the increase in the medical travel costs. So at three-quarters of the year, we're around $17 million, so probably projected to the end of the year probably hitting around the $20 million or more, similar to the medical travel of 2023-2024 number. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just to clarify, the numbers that I have before me in 2024-2025 for main and revised estimates are no longer accurate? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's not that they're inaccurate. It's that at this point in time in the fiscal year, we don't have the actuals, so we are expecting or projecting right now that the year will end higher, closer to the $20 million range, which is where this year in the main estimates we have proposed to increase the budget to match closer to actuals from 2023-2024 closer to what we are projecting the ultimate number to be at the end of this fiscal year. Revised is done, I think, before, roughly in December, so -- I may be wrong on the timing on that. But it is not something that we had a final number for in time for print. But, yes, this year hoping to align this budget with what we expect the actuals to be. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Great Slave.
Thank you. So when would the projections for 2024-2025 have been completed in the sort of timeline of -- I'm just trying to piece together, like, you know, if it cost approximately this same amount in 2023-2024 in actuals which would have been, I guess, at the end of 2023-2024, we went downwards for our estimate. That's, I guess, my main question is why did we project downwards when we were facing $7 million more in 2023-2024? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. To the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, the previous amount of $13 million is what the budget amount would have been. So back 2023-2024, likely you would have seen -- and I don't have it here or recall, but in 2023-2024 the actual budgeted amount, I believe, was significantly lower than what the actuals wound up being. You would see a change to revised if we brought a sup. In past years, we were, I know certainly in some years, able to cover internally increased costs in medical travel within the department. The last few years have seen a number of cost increases, not the least of which is an increased number of folks requiring medical travel, increased costs in flight costs. It's not an unsimilar story to what we may hear soon from when our friends in health and social services appear and speak to medical travel more broadly but the cost drivers that they are experiencing also impact this piece within the Department of Finance. So with -- you know, again, if there's a sup that needs to be brought to cover the cost, you would see it in revised but if not, you wouldn't, but -- you know, and, again, we have now at this point sought to increase the main estimates to reflect the fact that costs seem to be staying -- are higher than what were being budgeted and are staying higher. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I can appreciate that. I just -- I guess I'll stop there. I'm just -- I'm struggling with the concept of knowing that the costs were that much in 2023-2024 and then skewing back down. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me just as someone who sees, like, actual costs in my own budget. I realize a public government is different than a human being but it -- yeah, I'm still struggling with this. I don't know if the Minister has anything further to add.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
