Thank you, Mr. Chair. When does the Minister anticipate the bed projections will be due and -- well, actually shared with Members? That's probably a better timeline. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've been told that they'll be ready in April, and then we'll review them. And so once the department has taken a look at what those projections are, then I can let committee know and reach out to committee and be able to provide information on that. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to Member from Range Lake.
Thank you. Nothing further.
Is there any further questions from Members? Seeing none.
Health and Social Services, long-term and continuing care services, operations expenditure summary, 2025-2026 Main Estimates, $66,878,000. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Okay, thank you. Moving on to out of territory services beginning on page 214. Are there any questions? I'll go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, I'm interested in understanding the difference between the funding that is going to the health and social services authorities on this and then the funding that's being spent by HSS. So does this mean that we are spending on residential care, for example, $96 million? Or can they just explain the difference between the $97 million that's contained over here and then the $46 million. So do we have -- yeah, I think I'm asking the question in such a way that makes sense, but I'm just trying to understand how much in total we're spending on sending people out of the territory for care. Is it actually those numbers cumulatively, or are they separate things?
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to pass that over to the ADM if that's okay to explain that math.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the ADM.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the $97 million is made up of those items above, 51 of which is for residential care. And then if you come below to grants and contributions, of that 51, 46 of that goes to the authorities to deliver the out of territory placements for adults. And $6 million -- the remaining $6 million, $5 million/6, is under contracted services, and that is administered by the department and it's for southern placements for children out of territory. So the money that goes to the authorities is the $46 million and is specifically for adults. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you to staff, that does help me better understand that. So the $46 million that we see on the other page is contained within the $51 million so it's not a cumulative number. Yeah, okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And that is the only question I had on this page. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. Any other further questions? Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So on page 215, our facility-based addictions treatment, it looks like the number for 2023-2024 was about $5.3 million, and then last year, about $3 million was spent, and then the exact same number was estimated for this year. Is this number -- does it fluctuate based on demand, or do we just have a set amount that we can allocate to this and, you know, we can't offer any more if there's more demand for facility-based addictions treatment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this is -- this is services that we -- so when you look at the actuals from 2023-2024 and the mains from last year, that is what was budgeted but that's not what we spent. I know that we had come back for -- we had additionally had to come back for a sup to pay for that. This is something that fluctuates. Our numbers are increasing for accessing facility-based treatment. We actually -- over the years, you know, there were calls for reducing barriers to access to treatment and so over the work, there's been a lot of work working with different ways to access treatment, reducing the barriers, going through different providers. And so there has been more of an uptake and an increase on addictions treatment, facility-based treatment.
So one of the things that we continue to see is that our -- you know, we're actually looking at how this -- how we're doing this, and -- you know, and I think the big piece is that we want to be able to provide care for those who need the specific care, but we also have to take a look on the cost. But no, we have never turned anyone away that has been referred to services so those costs continue to add to our deficit. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So is there a particular reason to think that the number for this coming fiscal year would be around $3 million if -- at least in the last two years, it's consistently been significantly higher than that. On what basis are we estimating this year will stay at around $3 million? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. To the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, you know, we are looking at this and we have -- we are doing some work around this. And so the money that has been allocated to this, you know, we -- in order for us to know exactly what services we're going to provide and how we're going to provide them and, you know, we are looking at this program in particular, so right now, how it is is that it's just what was averaged last year. We are -- you know, that's what's going to be budgeted for this year. However, you know, we'll be -- like I said, we'll be looking at ways that we can -- with this funding and how we can support people. Not necessarily everybody does travel. You know, we've been providing more and more funding to Indigenous groups. You know, more Indigenous groups are setting up more facilities within their regions. And so those options, we are looking at utilizing and -- like, with working with -- those other programs that NIHB offers for treatment services so that, you know, there's more options out there, and those ones that are provided to First Nations and Inuit, people choose if they want to go to that, you know, then it doesn't necessarily add to the costs that we are. So we're working to look at all the different options to make sure that, you know, we're being -- trying to see what the actual costs and what the needs are. While I know that this is -- it's a topic that we all have had ongoing conversations about with facility-based treatment, there is -- we're in the process as well as -- in the RFP process, I believe right now, for renewing our contracts in the south. So thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thanks to the Minister for that. That is great to hear that we are better supporting facilities or on-the-land programs closer to home that we can offer to people instead of having to go away for facility-based addictions treatment. I know for some people that might be the best thing, but for others it might not be.
I would love if we could sort of monitor this over time given that one of the priorities of the Assembly is addressing the effects of trauma and addressing addictions in better ways. So I know that it's -- a lot of these programs are offered by partners, and we don't necessarily have direct control, but out of the things that we support and fund, I would love to see some reporting and monitoring on if there's a noted upswing in people seeking options closer to home and having to rely less on southern facility-based treatments. That's all for now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. Any further questions from Members? Okay, thank you.
Continuing on to page 215, Health and Social Services, out of the territory services, operations expenditure summary, 2025-2026 Main Estimates, $97,013,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Moving on to supplementary health and benefits beginning on page 217. Are there any questions? I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, my first question is does the department have an update regarding the recent changes that they made to the extended health benefits program; are more residents now accessing the program? What kind of data have they been able to pull over the past year since changing the program?
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, what we have seen is we've had -- what I do have is December 20th, we have 794 individuals that are registered for this benefit. And to the statistics on this is we've seen some member -- like some people who were previously on the program within it that they've chosen not to continue with it as the deductible might be more than what they were actually spending. And so, say for instance, somebody who had a $600 deductible, maybe it was equivalent that their medications only added up to that so there was no need for them to pay the deductible to just get the same amount. So some are not. So these are things that we are -- we are monitoring. And we do know that there are 366 new clients that are -- have been added to this so that is -- that is a good thing, and -- but this program, like I said, it is in its first year so we haven't even completed one year yet, and that's not until September, and I have committed to bringing back any information back to the Regular Members and committee within -- like, within the six months after that one year just to be able to provide any -- how it's going over this first year.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So 366 new clients. So those are 366 new individuals. Does that represent a growth of 366 clients over what was there before? So how many were registered prior to the change, I guess. Because you're saying there's 794 registered now, how many were registered before? Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you. Before when it was a specific disease, there were 1200 accessing the program. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair. So I'm a little bit confused if that's the case. We have 366 new clients. I'd have to do some very quick math to figure out what 1200 minus 794 is, but it soundings like there's been a significant decrease in registration for the program. So can the Minister explain what's going on with the numbers there. Is there another program that people have fallen into; can the Minister just help us understand.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, as this program is the payer of last resort and some people who previously may have had other insurances because -- and due to the specific disease, you know, they may have had one of the specific diseases or a dependent that had one of the specific diseases on that file that would have made them eligible, that person eligible for this program, and so therefore due to the way that it's calculated based on -- I think it's net? Net income and the 30 bands, then they -- you know, they chose -- maybe they -- then that's the thing is that -- and for those that -- when I've talked to back to the department is those individuals chose that it's more expensive or it's equivalent to the prescription because once you're over band, band one, it is for prescriptions and supply -- medical supplies for extended health benefits. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The next question I have is I note that the budget item hasn't changed year over year. One of the cases made by the department when this change was being proposed is that it would help potentially save money. I'm just wondering, the budget hasn't reduced, can the department comment on whether the goals of the changes for the program have actually been achieved; has it changed anything substantively, or are we kind of ending up right back where we started with a different program that's covering less people but costing us the same? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the department, at the same time that they're doing this, they're also working on the product listing agreements, so those are medications and things like that that they're getting lower costs for medications, and so that is one of the reasons why we've been able to keep the costs down and in within extended health benefits on the prescription side. And just to also add note to the -- there are members and people that may not have needed supplies or -- so when, say, somebody that would traditionally use the extended health benefits and they were for supplies and things like that and maybe it was a big ticket item due to, you know, one of the things and they may not need that, so they may not want to pay the deductible until they actually need that. So that's what this program is. It's kind of like how -- you know, when you think of how some of our other Sun Life and you put in for your glasses and your glasses cost $300, but they keep the deductible, and so sometimes it wasn't -- in some of the instances that I've been told is that it was -- they just chose not to do that. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister answer the question maybe a little bit more directly, just have we actually saved money? Has the program achieved what it was seeking out to do? I mean, the department gave MLAs a bunch of different reasons why this change was needed. I'm just curious if we've actually achieved a change, or if we're spending the same amount of money, we seem to be covering a few new people but less overall. I'm having a hard time understanding kind of what benefits have come from the change. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we are halfway through this year, so some of the changes that, you know, that also have been taken on, like I said, the product listing agreements -- and the ADM can speak more in detail to some of those things that have happened behind -- that are ongoing alongside that helps to bring down these costs. But right now where we are is we're halfway through this year and so, you know, we're not going to know the full outcome and being able to answer all of the Member's questions until we actually have a full year of going through this and then be able to analyze any of that. But if I may, to speak to more of what other things that are going on that's keeping and working to keep those costs down, the ADM can answer those questions. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the ADM.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So currently, and as the Minister said, we're only halfway through the year, this year, and we are expecting the program for this year to be within budget. And while costs are still significantly being -- are increasing, there's lots of inflation on the cost of drugs and supplies, there is an extra effort in negotiating those product licensing agreements to get us the lower rates for all the products that are being purchased. And it is doing what we want it to do. It's keeping us within budget.
In addition, the rollout of the new program has also done what we expected it to do in that some people will choose not to register for the program because they do have access to other benefits and weren't accessing them previously or realized that the deductible that they needed to pay is more than what they actually need to pay for their drugs on an annual basis. So that is also having a factor in helping us stay within budget. Yeah, so I think that's it for now, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Member from Frame Lake.
