Thank you, Minister. To the Member, Great Slave.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you to the Minister for that clarification. For an item that's near and dear to my heart, and I appreciate working with the Minister on that very, very much, can she clarify if there have been new subscribers to income security now that the eligibility criteria has been expanded for folks who are applying for permanent residency on humanitarian or compassionate grounds? Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the answer is no, no extra people. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member, Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's all for now.
Thank you to the Member, Great Slave.
I will allow round two. And I have the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I wanted to turn my questions now to the income assistance program and an area that I started to pull on a little bit earlier this sitting, and that is just the department's work on reforming the ongoing work, I would say, reforming income assistance and how we can better improve this program. In other words, there's been lots of talk about the productive choices, bringing that back. And I just wanted to ask the Minister a little bit more about the work that Alternatives North did with their basic income guarantee proposal. Recognizing that the full proposal may not be something that's on the table for the department right now, I can't help but emphasize yet again the potential savings for the program that the report put forward. When I heard the Minister responding to other Members' questions about the administrative burden that comes with administering income support, that is something that was proposed there and other savings that could come about as a result of changing the way income support was delivered.
So, specifically, I am curious if the Minister or her staff have done any further work on looking at our turndown thresholds and whether those are one of the factors in people who are currently on income support not seeking out or furthering their employment. Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I'd like to pass to the deputy minister to give the department perspective as well on this one. I know I've answered questions on the floor of the House, so I will pass to the Deputy.
Thank you, Minister. To the deputy minister, please.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The department does from time to time look into -- there's reports on universal basic income that we see every few years. We do, of course, read them, especially when they come from, you know, a northern, you know, think tank, if I can call it that. So we do look at it each time. At this time, we're not considering implementing either a universal basic income or a pilot project. Our preliminary assessment is that it would be too costly to implement. And with something like this, if you do have a pilot program, you're going to have significant additional administrative costs when you're running two different programs. That doesn't mean that we're not looking at the positive attributes of universal basic income, which are low threshold and that piece and some of the changes to our programming last year were aimed at some of those very barriers. So yeah, as I say, we've reviewed the Alternatives' report and they reference the northern basket measure as part of determining positive level -- or poverty levels. We do as well within our system. So there are some common elements. But at this time, we're not -- not considering a move in that direction. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the deputy minister. To the Member, Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I appreciate the deputy minister demonstrating that he's certainly read that report, and I am sure Alternatives North doesn't mind being referred to as a think tank at all.
What I was trying to get at is not so much that I am encouraging the department -- well, I am encouraging the department. But it's okay that the department is not looking at doing UBI right now. What I am trying to get at is that the turndown threshold work that was done I think could help inform our work. It's clear to me -- and I will just say this, from talking to my own constituents, I have a constituent who's on income support, and they have very clearly communicated to me that the turndown threshold that we currently have is too low. And that person is considering not working at all so that they don't -- because every single month, they have to apply for income support. It's unsure whether they're going to get it. They're worried about having clawbacks. And so it's a barrier to them being employed. So I am just speaking for one person. And I know that I've got colleagues who have many constituents who are in the same boat. So I think it's something worth looking into further.
Maybe what I would ask, to give maybe perhaps a more constructive question, is what work the department is doing on reviewing how income support is being delivered and how we can overcome this fundamental problem in the program that my colleagues have spoken so much to. I am curious to understand. And I think I emphasize -- I have emphasized this behind closed doors, and I will emphasize this on the floor too.
I encourage the department to try things, to experiment. I think that is exactly the kind of attitude that we need to have when we're working on these problems. And, certainly, if I can give my own reassurance, when the department is willing to put themselves out there and try things, I am not going to jump down their throats when mistakes are made. So I would just encourage experiment -- experimentation, trying things, you know, having the courage to be wrong sometimes but also knowing that through doing that, we might find a right way. So a lot of comments there. But looking for a response from the department. Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. To the Minister on response.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, you know, what can be done certainly with the changes to the policies within income assistance, there is a public education component that is needed so that we're ensuring that people understand, you know, the portion of earned income certainly with -- within any change, especially when it comes to people reliant on a program for their month-to-month needs, we want to make sure that that they have the information that they need at their fingertips and understand the opportunities that exist within that. Our intent is to make sure that we are supporting Northerners to pursue employment opportunities, get their foot in the door, while still being able to rely on their month-to-month basic needs are met by the program. But I think that's it. It's that this program ultimately, at the end of the day, is to support the basic needs of residents, to ensure that they can pay rent, to ensure that they can pay utilities. And so I encourage the Member not to look at it so much as a clawback in that we're also trying to support residents to find pathways to employment, find pathways to education and training through this program because ultimately -- and I know that I have these conversations with the Member all the time, and he's a huge proponent of training and post-secondary. That's what helps lift people out of poverty and into opportunity, and so the more that we can support that the better. And so that's why there is that opportunity for increases to earned income so that we're providing that grace period needed. And so certainly not a clawback but making sure that we're working together with residents to meet the basic needs on a month-to-month basis so that residents can be -- can be safe, can, you know, remain housed, can provide meals at the end of the day. And so, really, it's more us working together with residents to meet their month-to-month basic needs to be healthy Northerners. Thank you.
Thank you to the Minister. At this point in time here, I will add, and on the spirit of leniency going into round two, if Members could condense their comments and a short brief question, that might expedite our review of this chapter.
Going back to the Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. To that end, I am finished. Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. I will now move on to the Member from Monfwi.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Mr. Chair, it is a shame, you know, SFA policy is holding our Indigenous students hostage, fund them only when -- you know, if they are taking Aurora College bridging program. But it's something that we need to work on to improve. Yes, there's a lot of improvement made. You know, like student loans was increased from 60 to 90,000, and at the same time and just like the Minister said, okay, the -- for basic and supplementary funds have been, you know -- there was some improvement made. But living in the Northwest Territories, to rent -- the rent are -- you know, there's limited housing for students and -- in Aurora College -- with Aurora College, especially in Yellowknife, we have limited space available. So some students, okay, they go to Fort Smith, and still the funding is still not enough. I mean, it's, I guess -- that's only way that some of our young people will, you know -- it's -- it's going to help with mental and emotional -- the struggle is good in a way sometimes but not, you know, to what it used to be, especially now with the high cost of living. So I know that the some of the students, in order to meet for the rent, especially with the rent increase going on -- and then I know some of the parents or some of the young people do not -- room and board is not an option for them. Maybe -- so they're going to go for student loan. That's what they're going to do because this -- the monthly living allowance, it's not going to pay for the rent if you're living off campus, so. And then -- so there is a student loan that they offer here. There's that remissible loan but there's that loan that they're offering -- okay, just wait. Okay, the interest rate for the loan is -- it's zero, but for the -- for the Indigenous student, if they want to live off campus because due -- it's -- you know, it's not their fault because there's limited accommodation available for them. So if they do go and then they apply for a loan, so what is the highest loan that the NWT SFA gave to the Indigenous students for taking programs in Yellowknife, especially in Yellowknife, you know, with the high rent. So what's the highest student loan or that loan that they give -- it's not a remissible loan that -- I am not talking about the remissible loan. I am talking about another loan to offset the high cost of living.
Thank you to the Member. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, the highest loan, so the repayable loan, is the additional $1,400 a month, and the loan cap overall for students is $90,000. Thank you.
Thank you to the Minister. To the Member, Monfwi.
The other -- the $90,000 you're talking about but that's not available for the Indigenous students? That's for -- that's a remissible. Because we do have SFA already. So do we qualify for that loan as well? Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So the loan limit for students incorporates any form of loan that they have. So if they have a remissible loan and a repayable loan, it's all found within that $90,000 limit. And as they pay it down, it allows them to continue to incur more loan funding under that amount. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member, Monfwi.
So as Indigenous students, did they use up to the capacity or up to the 90,000? Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, the loan limit for all students is $90,000. There is an unlimited amount of semesters for Indigenous students, so the semester portion is a grant and then on top of that it's the -- the remissible loan and the repayable loan. As students return to the territory, that remissible loan naturally comes down and as they repay their repayable loan, then the repayable loan portion comes down. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member, Monfwi.
Thank you. I know that Indigenous students are not going to use up the $90,000 loan because we're already getting remissible loan, you know. So we're not -- that doesn't -- we're not eligible for that. But we can get the other loan that we have to pay. A remissible loan doesn't qualify for the Indigenous students. So that's why I am just asking. So if for loan default, I know that if the students skip, they have to pay every dollar that they borrow because of the supplementary grant, basic and supplementary. So if a student get a loan, so they have to pay every dollar that they borrow. It's not like remissible loan where non-Indigenous or non-treaty apply for that loan, half is remiss. And that doesn't apply to the Indigenous students because when I was a student and I have to pay. We have to pay. And there are other students that I talked to said the same thing. Because the money -- the amount of money they were receiving didn't even cover their rent so they had to get an extra loan, and they have to pay all of it back, so. And some of them, if they didn't -- did that, because of the limited jobs and then for whatever reason, like, some of their loan went to the collections and that affected their credit rating. So that is another reason why some of the Indigenous young people said they don't want to go for that loan even though it's there to help them, but because of that they said no. Some of them put off -- put off their education or find other ways to get their training. So it would have been nice if -- if they -- if they could be treated the same as the remissible loan. But they don't qualify for the remissible loan. So that was the only reason why I was asking, and -- but I mean, it's something that, you know, we still have time so there's still room for improvement, so I will be talking about that. It's -- it's not just for now. It's -- it's going to be -- maybe I will do another Member's statement on some of these programs that's in place.
But with income support assistance, and my colleague talked about the productive choice, with the mine closure -- I mean, the income support assistance or income assistance program has remained the same from 2025-2026 with -- you know, in the upcoming fiscal year too, and with the mine closure, do you think this $44 million is enough? Thank you.
Thank you to the Member, Monfwi. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we endeavour to make sure that we are seeing more funding flow out of education, culture and employment for workforce development training dollars rather than through income assistance and want to make sure that if we have residents of this territory who want to work and are looking for opportunities that we're working closely with businesses, Indigenous development corporations, and residents themselves to support them, to find opportunities within the territory, and then also even working, for example, with opportunities within Nunavut. So there are other mines operating in Nunavut that are working -- are looking for workers, and making sure that we're making those connections so that ultimately people can stay employed and stay in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. I will allow one more question there to the Member of Monfwi if you can make it a little bit shorter for the time allowed and to the question on this activity.
Yeah, well, income support assistance program and with the mine closure, this is where the bridging program is really -- like, I mean, SFA needs to change their policy to accommodate many of our people that are employed. They've been out of school for many years some of them, and some of them may not want to go to Aurora College. And I don't think a lot of them don't want to go on the income support assistance because they've been self-sufficient and, you know -- and income support it's not an option for them for a lot of them, you know, because they have -- they have mortgages, they have -- not -- you know, they have other payments. So asking them to go on income support, it's really gonna be -- it's -- they have -- you know, they have pride because they live -- they make -- they work for a living. So that's why the bridging program needs -- the policy needs to change to accommodate people that are coming from the mine industry that have been absent from school for so many years and that -- you know, maybe they want to go south to take some programs and not limited to -- only to the Aurora College OCAP and UCAP. Thank you. It's just more of a comment. Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. Aside from the comment, are there any further questions? Seeing none, does committee -- okay, no further questions. Please turn to page 48.
Education, Culture and Employment, income security, $71,099,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Thank you. Moving on to labour development and standards on page 51, with information items on 53 to 55. Are there any questions?
To the Member, Great Slave and Yellowknife North.
Okay, that makes it sound like we're gonna do battle, Mr. Chair, but I will go first.
(audio) Yellowknife North. Proceed.
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. So just looking at the main estimates for this activity, there -- there doesn't mean to be any -- there doesn't appear to be any substantial growth or reduction. It's staying sort of static. And so with the I would say rather continuous pressing of many members on the desire and need to see more tradespeople in -- being trained in the -- in the NWT, having more opportunities for apprenticeship, etcetera, how does the Minister and this division see itself effectively supporting labour market training and development efforts. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the Member, Great Slave. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we have recently signed an agreement with the federal government to increase our funding to this area. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And apologies if I missed that in -- in previous deliberations of Committee of the Whole. So thank you to the Minister for that. Can she provide more details around that agreement? Thank you.
Thank you, Member, Great Slave. To the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we're always happy to get more money from the federal government. So it is an agreement with the federal government. The Member has not missed anything in Committee of the Whole. This is the first I've been asked about it, so the first I've been able to talk about it. Because we don't have the dollars in hand, I am advised that I should be a little bit vague on the number but it would come forward in supplementary appropriation to this House, and I look forward to sharing more details, hopefully sooner than later, with Members of the House and residents of this territory. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member, Great Slave.
Well gosh, Mr. Chair. I don't have anything further to press. Look forward to that detail. Thank you.
