Debates of October 17, 2025 (day 64)

It can happen to anyone, Mr. Speaker. And even twice a day. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to read a motion.

WHEREAS Avens is a care community for elders and seniors based in Yellowknife that provides long-term care services for residents under contract with the Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority (NTHSSA);

AND WHEREAS in August 2023, when the city of Yellowknife was under evacuation order, Avens was forced to evacuate 57 vulnerable residents, including some from long-term care facilities in Hay River and Fort Smith who were selected by the Government of the Northwest Territories for placement at Avens;

AND WHEREAS Avens was left with reduced staff due to additional demands from the Government of the Northwest Territories and was therefore unable to locate care sites and secure additional supports in order to maintain full services for its residents during their four weeks in the Edmonton/Leduc area;.

AND WHEREAS this work was done without financial assistance and resulted in Avens incurring over $1.3 million in evacuation costs to transport, house, and safely care for Avens residents;

AND WHEREAS a little over $900,000 was reimbursed to Avens under the Government of Canada's Disaster Financial Assistance Fund but the remaining balance of costs incurred has not been repaid by any government;

AND WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories has refused to reimburse Avens the balance of the $400,000 which includes essential staffing costs dating back to the evacuation;

AND WHEREAS the 2023 Wildfire Emergency Response After-Action Review does not address compensating staff and incurring extraordinary operational expenses;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Member for Sahtu, that the Legislative Assembly recommend that the Government of the Northwest Territories reimburse Avens $400,000 which is the portion of the costs incurred from their assistance to the government during the 2023 wildfire evacuation and it is not covered by the federal Disaster Assistance Fund;

AND FURTHERMORE that the Government of the Northwest Territories, in its response to the 2023 Wildfire Emergency Response After-Action Review, provide guidelines on how to address remuneration of essential staff during an evacuation particularly for the non-governmental organizations providing contract services to the Government of the Northwest Territories;

AND FUTHERMORE that the Government of the Northwest Territories respond to this motion within 120 days.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. Member from Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Pursuant to section 77(1) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, I'm informing the House of a conflict of interest in this motion as my wife is a chair of the board of Avens, the community for seniors. I shall withdraw from the proceedings accordingly to avoid this conflict. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Range Lake. Member from Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, before I begin, I want to recognize the team from Avens that is in the gallery today. I named them all to the best I could earlier, but.

Oh, just one, sorry. I apologize.

Thank you, sir. And what important representation it is, may I point out.

Mr. Speaker, I rise to talk about how important this motion is to Avens but, in fairness, the motion is also important to all territorial partners that help ensure Northerners were well cared for during the 2023 evacuation. Let us not forget the important role that NGOs play in service to our northern people, our government, and any institution that they collaborate with. They are key partners to our northern success.

What an experience, Mr. Speaker. Like no others, you know very well yourself more than 50 percent of the NWT was evacuated during that experience. It was completely unreal, the work and stress this caused so many. But, Mr. Speaker, what was overlooked in any form is the everyday -- we can't overlook -- sorry -- in any form the everyday people who rose to the occasion during this absolute urgent crisis. Yes, as we look back, we can say thank God our city wasn't razed and other communities weren't razed, Mr. Speaker.

So during that experience, so much had to be done and by so many as the fire was barreling down on this city and other towns, Mr. Speaker. In particular to Yellowknife, the city was under great duress. That fire could have jumped the line at any time. It could have turned back. Sure, that's a possibility, or it could have rained for several weeks. It didn't, though. And all we had were unknowns at the time when evacuation was ordered. Unknowns, Mr. Speaker.

So Avens, an agency such as themselves, had to make decisions, and they had to make responsible decisions. And in my opinion, they did. Hindsight is always 20/20. So I repeat: They had to make decisions given what information that they knew at the time. So when you're faced with choices that are limited and unclear, you have to do your best.

Mr. Speaker, Avens was this government's crucial partner during the crisis caring for the most vulnerable. I say clearly, this government because why is this government? Because in my view, it's always the same government. The faces of leadership change, that's true, but it is the consistent policy as it moves forward. It's the foundation of how we do business here. It may be the same government, but it evolves over time. So I'm talking about not just this government and the previous government.

So who is responsible? This government, Mr. Speaker.

So where are we today? Avens has made choices. They had to make choices in absence of any clear direction, policy, instructions, Mr. Speaker. They had to do their best. And, again, I think they did do their best. Now the problem is didn't -- but it didn't come was -- was the instructions until later. Government wants to share the responsibility, Mr. Speaker, by telling Avens they are now responsible for these costs. But, Mr. Speaker, that is completely unfair. This, moreover, is why we're here dealing with this particular disappointment today.

Mr. Speaker, Avens has been treated unfairly. Could you imagine any other community or any other NGO being left to hold the bag on a government responsibility and instructions to leave with your people, our most vulnerable, with no details as to how to do it? No limits, no parameters, Mr. Speaker.

Avens has always been a vital NGO that serves the lifeline of seniors across this territory. And in many ways, I feel it's shameful that we've allowed this dedicated organization to be left hanging at this point. Their plight is quite stressful, and it's unfortunate that it's here on the floor today. It didn't need to be.

Mr. Speaker, I personally find it unacceptable that the government continues to cite guidelines that were introduced post-mortem to the disaster as reasons for refusing the legitimate staffing costs. Mr. Speaker, this motion and this issue is all about fairness. And the problem is fairness is being denied.

Mr. Speaker, we must not allow changes in policy after the fact influence the outcome. Mr. Speaker, we must deal with the reality of what they were facing during that day, including the instructions, or I should say lack thereof.

Mr. Speaker, the facts are clear: Avens, a territorial seniors advocacy group and a long-term care provider, was thrust into an impossible situation during the wildfire season. Mr. Speaker, there was no support, again no guidelines, no assistance from the government. It was merely just, here you go. Avens organized its own plane. But guess what? Somebody came and commandeered it. That would be NTHSSA. Mr. Speaker, they were struggling to find a way to get out. A plane did finally come, and they did get out.

Mr. Speaker, this is very important. They had done work, the government took their plane, and then they had to find their own way. There's a cost and expenses seniors and elders in vulnerable care are challenging to deal with. A lot of work has to go into this.

This is an insane reality to consider, Mr. Speaker, especially when in those days, even the hours before the evacuation, the GNWT was still sending seniors over who were stranded from one evacuation area to the other. They were still receiving people. Everyone was fully aware how challenging this would be but dumping the weight on -- dumping the weight, but what's important, a significant weight and expectation, costs, and managing on this NGO is no less than a Herculean task.

Now, thankfully, Avens at the time has both the talent and help and ability to help manage through this crisis otherwise I don't even want to speculate where we would have been. Mr. Speaker, the fact is seniors would have been put into some risk. I dare not guess how far.

So to be clear, Avens arranged its own transportation, which is a little more challenging than you can think than organizing a minor hockey team, Mr. Speaker, or a little more trickier than organizing 60 useful players full of sugar on a soccer bus trip for a ride for six hours. This is a difficult undertaking. We're talking about people of the greatest of need. And I can't stress that. Specialized care, Mr. Speaker, crucial equipment. It's not that easy. None of these things would have been easy to do. I can't even imagine where you would start your undertaking of your logistics of planning this. This was challenging.

Now, Mr. Speaker, to be fair, the government did help on the return logistics, but then, again, they helped everyone on the return logistics three weeks later. So that was -- in all fairness, they did help with that. But it was still undertaken largely and the expenses all fell on the shoulders of Avens. However, as we need to move forward, this was done by Avens in the sense of helping them. They were being our important partner.

So let's be frank. This was part of a broader effort to assist individuals that Avens was trying to support, Mr. Speaker. Important residents needed the specialized care, and that cost money. So I mention this today just in case this government wants to take a more broader picture about how this gesture of what they've done to this organization sends ripple effects. We have capable hands who rose to the occasion, some may even say heroic efforts, and yet they feel years later it's been nothing but a struggle. The good deeds and duty they rose to has been ignored.

Mr. Speaker, they are not asking for anything that isn't fair. What they've been told by the government is they must absorb the costs that the government dumped on them. It was Avens responsibility according to the government. But, frankly, Mr. Speaker, if you talk to Avens, they've been saddled with costs that they really, really shouldn't have. To cover these real expenses, that's all they're asking for, Mr. Speaker. Avens has been forced to take out a second mortgage. Mr. Speaker, it's shameful that this organization is now having to mortgage one of their paid-down buildings to navigate through this financial crisis. This is a new burden that the government has offloaded on this NGO. Can you imagine if this was a problem in Inuvik that an NGO was told you have to pay? Could you imagine if this was a problem in Fort Smith? I mean, we'd be up in arms. Mr. Speaker, don't treat this NGO a terrible -- in an I'd say a biased way. It deserves the respect, the years of partnership it's represented in this community and our territory.

Now, we're suggesting there are ways to figure this out. But, Mr. Speaker, the problem is not Avens anymore; it really should be the GNWT. It's deeply troubling how this reflects poorly on our commitment to organizations that rise to the occasion to support our most vulnerable citizens. Mr. Speaker, this service couldn't be done cheaper by the government. So in other words, my view is -- and I feel that it's so frustrating when you see the value for the value the government gets by going to an NGO and yet here they are told you've got to pay more. It's so unfair.

Mr. Speaker, the accountability and transparency on this issue is where we're going next. Avens was one of the very first organizations in the NWT to compile lessons learned and action plans for future disaster situations, particularly those affecting the most vulnerable sector. This proactive approach should have been met with encouragement and collaboration from our government. It's not a blame exercise, Mr. Speaker; it's about thinking forward and thinking. Let's be honest, these things probably will happen again, whether they're in Yellowknife or not. Look no further than Fort Providence this summer. They had a major evacuation, and we need to ask ourselves what rules are we playing by? Are they updated? Are they fair, Mr. Speaker?

But this government hasn't even acknowledged the work that has been done and what it costs and certainly what they found after their clear and fair assessment. Mr. Speaker, this needs to be reviewed. When agencies invest time and their resources into providing thoughtful and professional recommendations, they should not be met with silence on top of ignoring the moral and ethical financial responsibilities. Ignoring and shelving these vital suggestions sends a message from this government that you're truly not valued, your expertise or insights are not necessary.

In my view, it's shameful, Mr. Speaker. We talk about caring for our vulnerable population while failing to act on varied recommendations they're trying to offer to help improve the system and things that will help save lives.

I am proud to stand here and support Avens because they really do make a community difference. They're accountable, they're transparent, they have a healthy board, they manage their finances well. I mean, you know, their residents are happy. Not everyone's happy every day, that's real life, but the fact is they love Avens. They recognize the work that is there. They recognize that every institution has challenges. And I'd say the overall community loves and is very proud of the work that's done at Avens. And I would say that that is a gold standard that we need to live by. Yet it comes down to what is meaningful to act here. We need to support this. Sitting silently while this happens is unfair. We must not allow the legitimate financial responsibility to pass us by.

Mr. Speaker, we could change this today. Honestly, we could. All the government needs to do is say we will find a way. And they could do that. They could say that. And I would welcome that. Mr. Speaker, I implore the Members to keep that in mind, that all we have to do is say yes. I understand there will be pressures from our community members about feeling this may be a Yellowknife issue. And I understand that. You have concerns too. And I understand perspectives of the communities and why you need to do what you need to do. I do respect that. But, Mr. Speaker, look at this: Avens is not just a Yellowknife issue; it's a territorial tragedy.

Mr. Speaker, again, they were sent people who were in long-term extended supportive care from Fort Smith, Hay River to Yellowknife. But it doesn't end there. Avens is also where it looks after many elders and seniors from every region of the territory, some from the top of the Mackenzie Delta down through the Sahtu to the Deh Cho. Avens welcomes anybody. And they help provide care, kindness, and dignity support, so those folks, no matter where they're from, get the best life and supports as they reach the final chapter of their lives.

Mr. Speaker, living with full dignity is one of the mandates that Avens has. Now, I'm not reading their mandate letter; I can just tell you by being on the ground there, they make sure everyone feels empowered and has the most dignity as possible. And that support runs true through all the staff. That quality of life in those final days is so important.

Mr. Speaker, we need to say yes. This House needs to get behind our seniors, elders, and vulnerable people. And we can do that today. So, again, if you feel it's not part of your constituency, ask yourself what if this very example happened to yours? You'd want that wrong righted today.

Mr. Speaker, I look to this government and say to them seize this moment and remember your promise to support our elders and seniors. What may be subtle here today is many people in history down the road may not know that the contribution you're making to this motion, but deep down inside you'll know that you've supported seniors. And that should help warm all our souls as we protect that community. Mr. Speaker, yes, there may not be a placard of every one of our names on this building that said we fought for that 400K that Avens was deserved, but deep down inside, as I said, we know what we did was right, and we know we did it together. And that includes Cabinet. You can do what's right too.

Mr. Speaker, in closing here, what the community is asking is only about fairness. And we can do this together. There's a measure of accountability and compassion that could be taken in action today, and I need your help, everyone's help here. You know, we need to rise, just like Avens, to the occasion. When faced down with troubling challenges, they did the right thing and we need to do the right thing by them. They deserve our support, nothing less.

Mr. Speaker, our vulnerable citizens mean a lot to me, and I feel that we need to make sure that gets demonstrated here. Mr. Speaker, this is just a rounding error as far as the government's budget is concerned. I think we could do better. And I'm not even saying shame, shame, you owe them an apology. I'm just saying write the cheque to fill the hole that they've been left with, Mr. Speaker.

With our collective support, this government will show Avens we care about them and we care about their commitment, Mr. Speaker. And finally, the important thing here, this also sends a message to every one of our community organizations that we don't leave them hanging when the government comes crawling and saying we need you now. How would they feel otherwise watching this example that's happened to Avens? So in the memory of everybody who committed themselves with the fullness of honour and zeal and commitment, I thank them for what they did in the 2023 fire evacuation. Let us fulfil. That thanks by showing them that the money is there to pay for their costs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker -- oh, and, Mr. Speaker, I will be asking for a recorded vote. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. To the motion. Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member from Yellowknife Centre put it eloquently enough, so I don't need to repeat all the reasons why he said. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, again, this is a victim of an unprecedented disaster, something we hadn't seen before. There are, I'm sure, many others out there, including Indigenous governments, who put a lot of extra effort in to assist the government in doing this and getting us through this. I don't believe Avens should have to endure this financial hardship. I believe it's a federal responsibility and, in my opinion, that's where the funding should be coming from to pay this deficit and not from our government; however, Mr. Speaker, having said that, the feds to this point haven't coughed up that money. But I do support the motion brought forward by the Member from the Yellowknife Centre and will be voting for it today. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Inuvik Boot Lake. To the motion. Member from the Sahtu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thanks to the Member from YK Centre for bringing this motion forward. I second this motion on the principles of fairness and respect. I do have elders staying in that centre and also have visited that centre and seen the expansion, and it's a beautiful facility, and it really stands up to shine this government that we are behind our seniors' community, and it doesn't matter where they come from. So on fairness, I support this motion as a seconder. And as mentioned, I couldn't have said it any better than the mover. I think all of us in this House here in some way or fashion do have relatives or friends staying at the facility, so we should keep that in mind and stand behind what is best for our territory and community and, respectfully, the elders that we stand behind and serve in all areas of the region. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from the Sahtu. To the motion. Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I go into my four communities in my riding, we have not very much elders left in our communities and the ones that are there are shipped out to Hay River, Fort Smith, and even here in Yellowknife. And we've got to continue to support our elders in our communities, and I know for a fact that we have elders here as well in this facility here in Yellowknife, from Lutselk'e, Dettah, N'dilo, and they really enjoy that facility. And I'm going to support this motion from YK Centre and the seconder from the Sahtu for that reason. Nobody should have to go through what the elders endured during this fire evacuation a few years ago, and I know that we have learned a lot since then. But right now, Mr. Speaker, I support this motion. Mahsi.

Thank you, Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. To the motion. Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So I certainly know from my own experience during the 2023 evacuations attempting to contribute to evacuating and supporting vulnerable populations within Yellowknife. I know that non-profits were in an extremely difficult and at times impossible situation having no clear guidelines set out ahead of time both as to what roles and responsibilities were for the evacuation between themselves, the territorial government, the city, and no clear guidelines as to what they could or couldn't spend money on or be reimbursed for. And so it does seem unfair. I agree that they were only told afterwards what expenditures would be eligible for reimbursement and from where.

So I do support the premise of this motion. I don't personally have the details or evidence in front of me in terms of what exactly Avens sort of spent money on and if there's debate as to whether they should or shouldn't have spent money on certain things and so, like, I don't have the power to review that, but I do think that the GNWT does need to review this instead of just saying that, you know, an entire category of things is not eligible, I think the government has a responsibility to look at this and determine that if the expenditures that were made were reasonable and proportionate in order to do what they were obligated to do, which was protect seniors, protect their residents, take care of them during this evacuation, that funds should be reimbursed. But obviously I don't have the sort of spreadsheets and receipts and all that in front of me that I personally can make that decision, but I do think it deserves the GNWT looking at this again and if, in fact, those expenses were reasonable and proportionate to what needed to be done that Avens be reimbursed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife North. To the motion. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to start by simply saying that Avens has been and remains an important partner to the GNWT in terms of delivering advocacy and support and services to residents, to seniors, to their families. They've been fulfilling that role for a great many years. And the residents that live there, Mr. Speaker, depend upon that sort of services, depend upon the services of the staff that are there. And so, Mr. Speaker, I do -- I acknowledge that there's -- many residents who were brought here as well as staff were here earlier but, Mr. Speaker, at this point, I want to provide a bit of information with respect to some of why the decision is where it is right now and how it has come there, and I want to assure, certainly the residents of Avens and the families of Avens, it is not because of any lack of caring for the residents, for their families, and for the staff that work there or about -- or for even a moment considering that Avens isn't a key partner. All of those things are true, and all of the statements that were made in that respect are accurate, they're fair, and there's not going to be any contest with respect to that.

Mr. Speaker, back in 2023, it was already said almost 50 percent of this territory was evacuated. That was following on earlier evacuations that happened that year and evacuations that happened the year before that and on the heels of the COVID pandemic that created an emergency situation in this territory for two years.

Mr. Speaker, none of that was fair. None of it felt fair. There were many people over the course of those years who went through those emergencies who felt that they were not treated what they called fairly or that felt that they experienced costs or income losses or revenue losses that they wanted compensation from, and quite simply not everyone was made whole at any of those junctures, Mr. Speaker. And, unfortunately, we're at another one of these junctures where an organization that is very well respected, that is an important partner, is coming forward and saying we feel that there's an element of compensation that we've not have been afforded in the course of the emergency.

So how we come to be there, Mr. Speaker, there was -- again, as was noted earlier, health care facilities were evacuated from multiple communities, including Stanton, and the folks that staff those facilities and support staff were called on to assist in moving them in a manner that was not expected and to then continue to provide care when they were evacuated alongside many other public servants from the GNWT who were asked to continue to perform their duties from difficult circumstances. All levels of government, municipal governments, some trying to remain, certainly in the zones that were being evacuated, some key staff remained, which was very difficult for them. Others were evacuated, but that was equally difficult, to continue performing their roles, and a lot of folks in the private sector and the non-profit sector similarly -- airlines would be one example -- asked to perform their services even when bases were moved and facilities were not what they usually were. So there was a lot of that sense, and if we want to say that that was unfair for everyone. But in this context, Mr. Speaker, I'd suggest fairness needs to be considered for what it means, which is acting impartially.

So what the GNWT received after from Avens specifically was, firstly, a claim for almost a million dollars, $989,000, and this did cover costs for overtime, accommodations, per diems, laundry, security, transportation, supplies, a lot of the costs that were incurred to support residents directly. Indeed, it's my understanding that this was all of the costs that were there to support the residents of Avens directly with one exception, Mr. Speaker, and that is a second invoice that was originally for $400,000, which I gather is the subject of the motion that's before us. And the reason this element was denied when the other one was fully covered, because this reflected a choice made on how to incentivize staff to attend their work duties. Specifically, it was an offer made and a decision made to offer a lieu time payment and to offer lieu time as an incentive to work your regular shift. And I want to right now say I am by no means passing judgment or suggesting that that was, you know, one way or a good way or a bad way or otherwise. That was a choice that was made that staff who work for Avens were being offered a lieu time payout in order to come and work what was a regular shift. And that, Mr. Speaker, we've gone back to Public Safety Canada. They've confirmed that if it's lieu time that occurs and arises during the emergency, if you have a lieu time that arises during the emergency, it can be part of your payment but when it's used as an incentive structure just as would be a bonus, let's say, that is not eligible. And so the GNWT has continued to apply that approach, Mr. Speaker. So similarly to decisions that would have been made, for example, if there was a public servant that they would certainly get paid their time for working and overtime for working but not be paid an incentive amount to show up to perform their duties.

So, you know, I understand, and, you know, I hear the comments that are being made. I, you know, appreciate the sense that this was all an unfair experience. And, again, Mr. Speaker, I think that sense of unfairness lingers for a great many people. But in terms of trying as a public government to do our best to be impartial in how we apply these rules, many of which, in this context, come from the federal government system, which is really the lion's share of what takes up emergency costs and emergency payouts, Mr. Speaker, that -- trying to be impartial as best as we can and apply some reasonableness by going and fighting to make sure that we get as much as we can for all of those making these claims, that we're certainly happy to continue to do. But there's, as I say, a great, a great many people, across the territory in all levels of government, in the private sector, in the NGO sector, who no doubt incurred some costs and/or had losses that are not being covered and, in terms of fairness, trying to continue to navigate that space as impartially as possible continues to be the approach.

Now, that said, Mr. Speaker, this is a motion; it is seeking to direct the government to take certain steps and, in that context, in keeping with the usual practice, Cabinet will abstain and accept the direction as it may come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Minister of Finance. To the motion. Member from Frame Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am at this time in support of the motion and support the motion coming forward as written. I mean, it sounds -- I appreciate that explanation from the Finance Minister, and, you know, it unfortunately sounds like this is all hinging on a bit of a technicality in terms of how it was claimed, what was claimed, whether it was proceeding during the emergency. I think the thing that was clear to me is during the 2023 evacuation, a lot of things were up in the air. There wasn't very much clarity for a lot of people involved, I think GNWT staff, various NGOs, and a lot was happening quickly, and so decisions might have been made on the fly that could have been made differently if things weren't proceeding and people didn't have to make decisions quickly and just deal with the situation they were dealing with. But they were. So I think, you know, it just feels really unfortunate to me that an organization as integral to our community as Avens, that does this kind of work, has been left in the lurch for a bit of money, you know, that, of course, the federal government is in a much better position to cover. This is money that was directly related to an evacuation of a scale that the territory has never seen before, I hope never does again, and I certainly hope, as we've been talking about in the House this week, that we learn from the events that happened and put a much more robust system and a much clearer set of rules in place so that if emergencies like this ever do happen again that we're much better prepared for it. I certainly expect that from the Department of MACA and that Minister. But I'll leave my comments at that, Mr. Speaker. I don't want to further elaborate on things already said by Members. I think the point is well made. I'll vote in favour of the motion. Thank you.

To the motion. Member from Monfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we all know forest fire 2023 affected a lot of NWT residents mentally, emotionally, and financially. When Behchoko was evacuated in 2023, we had residents, both the seniors, families with small children, escaping to Yellowknife with fires both sides of the road. And our elders, depending on the space in the facilities, our elders were sent to various places. Some of them were sent to Sahtu, and a lot of them were sent to Yellowknife. And when that forest fire evacuation happened in Yellowknife, many of our elders got caught up in the system. Some of them were sent to Vancouver, to various places, and they had health issues with no interpreters. So this really had an impact on us. So it's just there are some people in my region that are still affected mentally and emotionally, and every time there's forest fire is mentioned, it triggers. It's stress on many of our residents, especially those with families and those -- for senior citizens. So this forest fire 2023, we're still paying for the effects of it. There are still some -- lot of people -- businesses, we heard businesses and to be fair and everything, there are some residents who are affected financially. There were a lot of people that paid for their own accommodations. They provided for themselves. And nobody is looking out for them because as a result of the government policy, they were not eligible so they couldn't get reimbursement. And yes, I do agree senior citizens are the most vulnerable in our society. We need to look after them. But I would like to include in this motion is that I would support it to include to be retroactive to all other residents who spent their own money not just only in my riding but in Yellowknife as well and in Hay River. There's a lot of people that are saying we're still affected, we're still paying our bills. So this motion is good. I like it. And I will support, but I would like to see more done for other NWT residents who were affected by the forest fire 2023. So that way we'll, like, if -- we talked about -- our colleague mentioned fairness, so then we're going to be fair to all the rest of the NWT who were affected. Yellowknife residents, Behchoko residents, Whati residents right now, and for Fort Providence, Hay River, Enterprise, you know, there's a lot of people that were affected by this. So I will support this motion but with some -- you know, I would like to see the mover and the seconder to be working with other Members to be retroactive. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Monfwi. To the motion. Member from Great Slave.

Mr. Speaker, like other folks before me, I really do appreciate the intention behind this motion. As you recall, my questions yesterday spoke to the needs of elders and folks with disabilities in evacuation, and I mean I think this is top of mind for a lot of us. I also appreciate the context that was provided by the finance Minister just now. The resources that we have are stretched, and our pockets are not endless. The surplus has dropped by $150 million. So I can see both sides of the equation, Mr. Speaker.

I'd also like to point out that I have something that one of my colleagues likes to refer to as motion sickness, Mr. Speaker, simply put. I do recognize that this is a sincere and good tool that Regular Members have to direct the government, but the direction is non-binding, Mr. Speaker, and I find that very frustrating indeed. I will support this motion based on principle, but I am sad to say that I can already see the writing on the wall. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Great Slave. To the motion. Member from the Deh Cho.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do support -- I will be supporting the motion. I think that, you know, reimburse them, to think about the seniors. And we talk about safe communities for residents and it's one of our priorities, so thinking about that and thinking about how even in my riding when people got evacuated from from here to -- like the Member from Monfwi said, to Vancouver, people are still dealing with the effects of that. And financially too, some people are still dealing with that. So I'm thinking about that and how we care for seniors, how Avens does a lot of work for -- even my constituents, I have a couple of constituents that have -- that were there, had their end of life care there. And so with that, I will be supporting this motion and also looking at the changes that the Member from Monfwi wanted in for reimbursement for people that were affected back then and even up until this last evacuation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from the Deh Cho. To the motion. Member from Mackenzie Delta.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too will be supporting this motion. Like my colleague here saying that these motions are non-binding and can already see the outcome of it, but supporting and reimbursing our greatest resources, our elders, I've always stated that, you know, these elders, we're losing elders at a rapid pace and they're our greatest resources to have within our community. So we have to support them in every way possible. And the non-binding issue is still at the forefront because you can already see the outcome of it, but the intent is there and the support is there, so therefore I will be supporting this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Mackenzie Delta. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. Before we go to the vote, Member from Yellowknife Centre can conclude the debate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I won't be long. I will just quickly say first off thank you to all my colleagues who spoke. Every one of them said something of value that I thought was very interesting. I will take on that note specifically the comments made by my good colleague from Monfwi and Deh Cho. I think what I look forward to is working with them to create a motion to say exactly what they want to say, and that way we get that conversation out specifically to target those folks who need that type of help. And I just said to my colleague from Deh Cho and Monfwi that I'd help them work that through so we'd get something done in a timely way.

Mr. Speaker, it is mentioned by two colleagues, my good colleague from Mackenzie Delta, including Great Slave, about it being a non-binding motion. That is true. But what needs to be also true at the same time is the fact that it's a strong voice from this side of the House. So, you know, whatever the final number ends up being is the words were spoken, and I'm hopeful that the department will listen and find a way through this process.

The Minister of Finance points out a comment, and I appreciate what she did in the context of putting stuff -- as I often say the phrase setting the table of the issue. But keep in mind that, you know, things cost what they cost in an emergency, so either you keep people there and you have to pay what you pay or you don't, and then you've got to deal with what you've got. And the clear, simple analogy is, as I said to my good colleague from Inuvik here, which was a plumber may be worth $100 during the day, but you call them at 3 in the morning, they're worth 200 bucks, or else they don't come. So you tell people as the place is under grave threat, well, we're going to pay you regular, I mean, there's a stress there. We have to be real and fair. People have to be appreciated and respected. And I don't think it was a balloon cost. I think it was respect for those who chose to commit themselves to make sure they didn't leave. Because the last thing you needed was people panicking and leaving. And that's part of one of the messages being said here.

Just tying it up very quickly, this motion is about respect for all NGOs, and I want to stress to my colleagues, if you brought -- and it sounded like most people spoke in favour in one form or another, and I want to thank you for that. I want you to know from my heart that if your community's NGO was facing these types of challenges, I mean, please knock on my door because it matters to me. This highlighted, as many of my colleagues have said, Avens does support many of our community people, and we have examples. So, again, it reaffirms it's such a diverse organization supporting Northerners to help sustain as much dignity in their last hours, days, or months of their life, that they have the best way out, the most dignified chapter, Mr. Speaker. And thank you for that. And as such, I'll tie it up with that. I've already asked for a recorded vote, so I'll at this time thank everyone for their time and consideration on this matter. Thank you.