Member for Range Lake.
So what is the estimated or projected or desired value of this incremental plan in dollar amount? Thank you.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The estimated amount is $50 million.
Member for Range Lake.
So has it gone from $150 million notional plan to a $50 million incremental plan, is that correct? Thank you.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. $50 million for one year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Range Lake.
So it would still be -- okay. So it would be 150, then, grand total for the life of this Assembly? Thank you.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to be clear. There is no funding for this plan yet. We continue to request funding for this plan through the federal government and the different departments. But we do have to work and provide planning and design if -- and be prepared if there was to be anything approved by federal -- different funding pots with the federal government. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Range Lake.
Thank you. And just to be clear, like, I understand the Minister's intentions here and that there is a -- we're all on the same page that we want to build these homes and we want to invest more, and it's the resourcing question and a dollar question. But don't be afraid to disappoint me, right, because when you say we've got a $50 million -- like, last year, we negotiated a $50 million plan. And earlier this year, when we were -- well, I can't say what we were discussing earlier because it was in-camera but earlier this year, we got different information, and now again we're back to a zero-dollar plan. And what the House has been saying is we would like you to shift resources to invest in more housing, not use what you currently have, which is zero dollars. I get that we want Ottawa to pay for this problem, and they should, but just because they should doesn't mean they will. And if I'm frustrated, it's because we're just not getting a clear answer. If this is not a priority to use our own resources to do, then stop saying you have a plan. Because what you have is a funding request. It's an unfunded plan. So if it's a costed plan, it has our own resources behind it. Even if it's a significant -- even if it's -- if it's what you're currently spending, give us that at least because we need to go back to our ridings with is how we're investing in housing. And, again, a notional plan and an incremental plan, just putting different words in front of the word plan doesn't make it so. It doesn't build a home for someone. And, you know, I'm still -- so I'm concerned about this piece because it's like shadow boxing around what's really going on here, and I just wish we had some clarity, so it wasn't so confusing. Because I feel like in year four we're finally going to be told, yeah, there was no money all along, sorry, guys. Maybe next Assembly. The rate we're going, that's exactly where we're going to end up. So be clear with us. If you don't have money behind this plan -- well, you have been clear. Thank you, Minister. We'll work with you to support this. We'll work with you on any application. But more importantly, when the Assembly -- or sorry, when Members of the Assembly keep saying shift resources towards the housing priority, the expectation is that will happen. And when you tell us, well, we have things in the works, we're planning on things, we assume that's what's happening. And now that's not what we're being told. So, of course, I'll give time for the Minister to respond. But, I guess, the fundamental question is is this government shifting its spending priorities to invest more money into housing? And let's be clear. Is the government going to shift its spending priorities to put $50 million of housing in per year until the end of this Assembly? Thank you.
Just a reminder to Members to speak to the chair when you're addressing the Minister; we have to speak through me. So Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If I want to be clear, there's no money for additional housing units to be built. Nothing has been approved. But housing still has a responsibility to plan and to plan in place if there's federal funding and if it's approved. The budget today is the budget that you're reviewing and asking questions on. You've had this for how many weeks. We've presented this to committee. We've gone through it. So there was an opportunity then as well. And perhaps President Kelly can provide you more information on what's being done over the next year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
President of NWT Housing.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So the capital budget provides what Housing NWT and what the GNWT funding is for housing in the Northwest Territories. We are spending our money on those things, the money that we have received.
We also, in this budget, have a supplementary internal resources investment where I think the Member is interested in how are we reinvesting some of the money that we have on the capital side, and they're all -- there are investments in that vein. The challenge is is that there's not enough money to meet the gap that we have to address the public housing gap that we have, and so the planning that we're doing is should we get the money, we would be able to be ready to have shovel-ready projects and be able to move forward with addressing that public housing gap. So yes, the corporation's money is going towards building new units, for sure. And any federal money that we're getting is also doing that, anything that we have left over for internal resources is also going towards that, and then we have this plan for how we would address the public housing gap should we get more money. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Members, I just want to remind you we're on the key activity of housing services, and please keep your questions to housing services. Thank you. Member for Range Lake.
No, thank you, Madam Chair.
Next, I have Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I certainly appreciate my colleague's hard work although they've pulled a bunch of questions out of what I was planning to ask, so having to switch on the fly here.
I do appreciate the department clarifying that we are currently looking at up to -- well, we're currently looking at kind of -- and I'm assuming they meant kind of approved and moving forward 147 units before the end of the term of this Assembly. What I would ask kind of to build upon some of the comments that have already been made, you know, we had a good discussion about the $50 million over three years -- $150 million, I want to be clear. So I won't -- I won't go into that. But does Housing NWT or does the government in any way track total units being built across the housing spectrum? Because I am curious to know, you know, we've talked a lot in this House, and we've heard from Housing NWT, we've heard from all the different presenters to the Standing Committee on Social Development, that the housing spectrum and the housing continuum, there's a lot more to it than just public housing. So I'm curious if we're tracking total units across the housing spectrum, what's happening in the private market, what are we doing to kind of foster further development in the private market, what are IGs doing. Do we have a good picture of what is being done in the territory for housing right now? Because I know that there's a lot more happening that goes beyond the 147 units that we're building. Thank you.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. A really good question and something we discussed over the last number of months was a territorial housing needs assessment, and the work that Housing NWT is doing with this territorial housing needs assessment -- because making decisions going forward, this assessment will help with those decisions. And perhaps I could ask the President Kelly to provide more insight to the territorial housing needs assessment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
President Kelly, Housing NWT.
(audio) housing needs assessment, the quantitative work is complete. We're just about to finalize contracting for the qualitative work where folks will go and speak with community leaders as well as Indigenous leaders from their perspectives related to housing which will be one way that we can gain some of the information that the Member was asking for.
I would also like to add here that there's a number of agreements that we have with Indigenous governments and working groups, and part of that -- the plan with those is to be able to better understand what Indigenous governments are planning and will be adding to the housing stock as well. We are continuing to work and looking for those opportunities to build those relationships. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I certainly don't want to belabour the point too much but do want to note that, you know, the level to which the department would be able to bring back numbers for committee to review, that would be very appreciated. I know that they probably don't have them off the top of their heads right now. But certainly, you know, one could simply take a drive around Yellowknife, count all the different units that are being built. So I would be curious if the department could kind of put together some information for us because I think it would help us get a better picture. I appreciate them bringing up the needs assessment itself. I know that -- I don't know the exact date, but I believe that the goal to get that done is spring 2025. Can the Minister give us an update on where we're going with that goal and when we can expect to see the needs assessment completed. Thanks.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With the territorial housing needs assessment, this is something that we can share with committee. But basically in the initial review -- and there's still much to be done as President Kelly noted -- the 15,000 units within the territory, 2900 are Housing NWT owned units. And of that, based on the initial assessment, 700 more units are required throughout the Northwest Territories, both private and Housing NWT. So this is just the initial assessment with that report that we can share, but President Kelly can provide more information to that, Madam Chair. Thank you.
President, Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one comment that the city of Yellowknife has done their own territorial -- or excuse me, housing needs assessment which will be compiled into the territory-wide housing needs assessment, so there's some information that's already completed with respect to Yellowknife.
Because of the work that we want to do -- some of -- for some, in particular small communities, we need to do quite a bit of qualitative work because the quantitative data is not where we would hope it to be. So we've extended our timelines to ensure that we can get that work done in small communities, and so we're looking at early fall of 2025 for the completion of both aspects of the territorial housing needs assessment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And just to speak to a specific line item, another kind of part of this in the housing is spectrum and continuum, homeowner entry level and market housing programs, I note there is a reduction from 2024-2025 from -- or sorry, there's an increase. Can the department explain to us what's contained in that increase and what is going to be taking place there.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll defer to vice-president Mr. Jim Martin here. Thank you.
Vice-president, Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That increase can be primarily explained by a year-end accounting adjustment actually related to a noncash amortization estimate. We work closely with the Office of the Auditor General at the end of the year and did a reassessment of our amortization amounts, and we had to increase that expenditure. But that's what primarily contributes to that change. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry, I'm just having to go through -- I think that's -- that's it for kind of business plan related questions from me. I'll ask my specifics on the next pages. Thank you.
Next, I have Member for the Sahtu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My only question on this activity is on the per unit operating costs, we have 2900 housing units here. What is the operating monthly cost per unit? I know it fluctuates here and differs from community to community depending on items like fuel, for example, but I think historically we were in the neighbourhood of $1,275 for the operating costs of one unit. Can the Minister explain. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The operating costs for public housing units or housing units in the Northwest Territories is $21,000 a year. Housing NWT spends approximately $30 million a year just in utilities alone. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for the Sahtu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. As I mentioned, that's the only question I had on this activity. Mahsi.
Thank you. Next, I have Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm following up sort of on my colleague from Range Lake, and I'm looking at the annual report from 2023-2024, the annual report as of March 31st, 2024. And it shows in there, I think, that -- if I'm correct that the housing corporation or NWT Housing had 88 -- started the year with a $40 million surplus, ended with an $88 million surplus, Madam Chair. I'm just wondering if that funding or any of that funding has been considered as part of the incremental plan that the Minister has spoke to. And if not, what is the plan for -- what's the plan coming in for that surplus and kind of where does it sit now, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Minister of Housing NWT.
Thank you, Madam Chair. For that detail, I'll just ask President Kelly to provide that information to the Member. Thank you.
