Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. See CJBS, it's not a renovations. It's a new school we're asking for -- the community is asking for. So I just wanted to clarify that.
But there are Whati school -- it's not just that, but I'm not too sure if this is part of the capital project where busing, if there was any communications or, you know, with the community members because with the community growing, you know, people going back -- going home, the community is going to go through what we are going through in Behchoko with that subdivision. We're building a new subdivision in Behchoko. And Whati is going to go through that. Maybe Gameti is going to go through that. Wekweeti is going to go through that too as well, you know, so. So that's why, you know, it's -- busing is very important. And some of these projects is very important for some of the small communities in my riding, so same thing. Like, so what are we doing to accommodate community that's growing, especially to provide busing for young people, if that was part of the operation. But I think this is going to help improve our tenants, you know, in the small communities. So I just wanted to ask the Minister if they are working with the Indigenous government and/or with the school board in our region. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, in regards to busing, that is something that is afforded through some funding that supports that with the school funding formula. And so that's found in our main estimates that we review every year in February and March. That said, to answer the Member's question, busing specifically for Tlicho communities has not been raised in our education leaders' meetings but certainly is something that is undertaken and pursued by education bodies themselves who decide how they're going to support that in each of their communities and what way to best address transportation of students with their student body and also with the infrastructure that they have in place in the specific community. So, for example, Yellowknife would be far different than how Whati might choose to address this and how they choose to serve students as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'll go back to Member from Monfwi.
Thank you. Yeah, with the community expanding, we will -- they will definitely need some form of transportation for the students. So that's about it, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, I just wanted to ask, on page 21, when we look at the 2025-2026 Capital Estimates and then the revised estimates, it was -- the approved estimate was $2.3 million and then the revised estimates ended up being $37.2 million, and I wonder if the Minister can just explain how we got such a huge jump last year. I know there was overruns and extra costs in relation to the Mangilaluk School in Tuktoyaktuk. But does that account for all of that jump; can the Minister explain. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. All of that account is from Mangilaluk School in Tuktoyaktuk.
Okay, thank you. I'll go back to the Member from Yellowknife North.
Okay, thank you for that explanation.
I wanted to pick up on the threads that some of my colleagues have been talking about in terms of the need for assessments of schools because before we even know what the problems are or the extent of the problems, we have to be doing assessments. And I wonder if the Minister can explain -- I know we have a policy for how we conduct capital improvements, so like capital standards, but is there a policy on when or how often assessments are conducted in each of these schools just to figure out what is the state of repair of the buildings in the first place? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, while we work very closely with the Department of Infrastructure, the maintenance of assets are led by the Department of Infrastructure so that's work that is done under the Department of Infrastructure. What I can say is that there is an expectation of a five-year rolling assessment calendar. And maybe, Mr. Chair, through yourself, I would like to just check with my colleagues to see if they had any more specific information that they'd like to add at this time.
Okay. I'll go to the deputy minister -- or sorry, assistant deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The only addition I can add is something that was already stated and that's that the Department of Infrastructure is already committed to redoing those for YK1 and YCS as they are their own asset owners. But for their own planning for maintenance and for our purposes for the department of education, for capital planning, it's important that those assessments are done at a cadence. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go back to the Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I certainly do appreciate that commitment to do those assessments for the Yellowknife schools that, you know, are overdue on their regular assessments. But could the Minister or her staff explain what is the expected cadence? There was a reference to every five years. Is that generally happening? And, also, I wanted to clarify, we've been talking about assessments. My understanding is that there might be different levels of assessments. There might be a sort of a routine assessment, assuming that things are probably fine, but just sort of to do a look over, and then there might be a more detailed technical assessment done when sort of a problem is identified or there's, you know, more detailed cost estimates that need -- when they look into a problem.
So are we talking about -- is the expectation that a technical assessment would be done every five years or more of a routine assessment? And then I know this is a bit of a run on of questions, but if it's the routine assessment every five years what exactly triggers a technical assessment? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So the Member is right, there's two different types of assessments. So there's a routine assessment that is done on an expected five-year cycle. And so it is the goal of approximately 20 percent of our schools get done annually by the Department of Infrastructure for those types of assessments. Then there's also a technical assessment that the Member's referring to that is far more detailed, and that is done before a school undergoes a retrofit or a replacement so that we have a very detailed account of what is happening within that school envelope. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from the Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I appreciate that explanation. What puzzles me is that it feels like a bit of a chicken and egg, that you'll do a technical assessment when you're ready to do a retrofit, but how do you know that there's a need for a retrofit or major capital repair if you haven't done the technical assessment? I understand that sometimes there's a schedule for, you know, a midlife retrofit, and so regardless of what's actually going on in the school, you might sort of have a scheduled midlife that, okay, we expect to do retrofits so we're going to do a technical assessment. But saving that, how would you know that retrofits are needed unless you've done a technical assessment? And let me step back for a sec. I mean, when we had the news this year of the lead issues in schools, that seemed to take everybody by surprise. But the fact is that there could be all kinds of hidden issues that, you know, when they appear into public view it's when the problem has already deteriorated to the point that now it's -- you know, now it's an emergency, now it's very grave, it's very serious. But if we had more detailed assessments leading up to that, we might've seen that, but the problem is we don't know what we don't know until we do the assessment. So can the Minister explain what would trigger a technical assessment unless -- like, if a sort of regular scheduled midlife retrofit is not -- if that's not the triggering factor. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you very much. And I'm going to preface this with the fact that, you know -- and this is not going to be shocking to anybody in this room -- I am not an engineer by any standard or not. And so just -- I think that this might warrant, you know, a technical briefing with some technical experts on the case as well. So what I can say is that in the routine assessments that are done, there are natural lifecycles to products that are reviewed and taken into account. And I think it's important too that we don't make assumptions about what is in a routine assessment and what is not in a routine assessment. But that the technical assessment that is required before we undergo a retrofit is exploring, you know, the very detailed aspects of what is needed as far as windows and sizes and all that kind of stuff so that we can go out and properly ascertain what kind of budget would be required. So you're looking at much different things when you're talking about costing out the replacement of an infrastructure piece rather than just is it working properly or not. So I think that if there is a desire to kind of dig into the technicalities of this with the actual people who would be best positioned to answer very technical questions, it might be better suited to take this into a briefing and maybe off the floor of the House where I can have some infrastructure people to support on this conversation. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. I'll go to the Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That's fair enough. I mean, my priority here is that we get into a habit of having enough in our capital budget that actually addresses the urgent needs in our various education facilities. And it is concerning to me when I hear the Minister say that, you know, only 30 percent of the asks that came forward this year are being funded. And I don't know if all of those asks are -- you know, how serious the structural issues or repairs needed to the schools are or if it's, you know, gosh, we wish we had this extra function in the school, you know, and how those things are prioritized. But, you know, I made a statement the other day about how we have to prioritize taking care of the things that we have because at the end of the day if we just say, well, we just don't have enough money this year so, you know, get in line, things just get more and more expensive the longer you let things fall into disrepair and often it is, you know, cheaper and safer for everyone in the long run just to address repairs. And in order to figure out what you need to address, you need to be assessing. So I know this is a much larger conversation, but I look forward to it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Okay, thank you. Are there any other Members that have questions? Okay. If not, I want to swap out on my colleague for two minutes. I just have a couple of quick questions for the Minister. Thank you.
Okay, thank you.I will turn to the Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is to the Minister. I'm just sitting back and looking at the capital plan and what we're going through, and one thing that stood out for me is the school for Dettah in my riding. And years back, I was told that the school was up for replacement and it was put on the capital plan back in the 19th Assembly. I'm not sure what happened. But I guess my question to you, to the Minister, is can you maybe explain to me if that was the case, or if it was, why was it taken off the capital plan at the time? I'm not sure if you'll be able to answer. But I just want to put that out there. Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. Minister.
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, in regards to the school in Dettah, in the capital estimates that were put forward last year, there was a major kitchen overhaul that was approved in the 2025-2026 capital plan. Is it that work that the Member is referring to? Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wasn't really referring to that. Maybe I'll put it in another way is that when I see new schools being built in Yellowknife, I'm a little bit concerned about that. The reason why I say that is because the school in Dettah is probably one of the oldest schools that I know. And in fact when I was an apprentice carpenter at DPW, I was one of the guys that was doing the maintenance on that school in Dettah. And it goes back probably to 1971 or so. But, I guess, my question now would be is what kind of technical assessments were done to date to look at replacing that school? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to the Member. Minister of education.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, the school in Dettah was originally built in 1988, and currently the routine assessment that was done on that school does not show that it is in as much need as other schools in the Northwest Territories. That said, the school in N'dilo you will see is currently in the capital estimates to enter into the planning phase because it was found that that school is in great need and is currently -- has also a utilization rate of over 120 percent. So that school has seen a dramatic increase in the number of students that are in that school. It also does not currently have a gym. And the assessment rating for that school was one that showed that it should be one of our next schools in the territory. So by using the technical information that we have in front of us, as well as the utilization rate of the school, the school that is currently in Dettah is not one of the schools that is in greatest need; however, it was found that the school in Dettah -- or sorry, in N'dilo was. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member, Wiilideh.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And maybe you could help clarify because I thought the school in Dettah was modular units and trailers that was put in prior to 1988. How do I know that? Because I was one that worked on it. But I don't know if it's been -- when you say it's been built, are you saying that the school has been built then, back in 1988, or is it a complete retrofit of those trailers? I just need clarification on that. Thank you.
Thank you to the Member. Minister of education.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the document I have in front of me shows that the school was built in 1988, but I would be more than happy to provide the Member with a history of projects that have been done on the school as well as when the school was originally built so that the Member has a complete picture for the school in Dettah, for Kaw Tay Whee School.
Thank you, Minister. To the Member.
Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And one final comment -- or sorry, question will be is that if the Minister could continue to work with the local DEA and come up with a plan as to look at their assessments and needs, I guess, for that school. I've been to constituency meetings where they're looking at a new school in that community. So anyways, I'll maybe put that to the Minister, when she has time, if she could maybe in her schedule to take a look at that and meet with the DEA. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Do you take it as a comment; Do you want to reply there, Minister?
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I'm always happy to get together with education leaders in the Northwest Territories and have sat with the DEA in N'dilo with the Member and absolutely more than happy to continue those relationships. Thank you.
Thank you to the Minister.
Are there any further questions from the Members? Seeing none, we'll continue on.
The Department of Education, Culture and Employment, education, infrastructure and investment, $21,248,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Members, please return now to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment on page 18.
Department of Education, Culture and Employment, 2026-2027 Capital Estimates, $25,748,000. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Committee, that concludes our consideration of Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you, committee, and thank you to the Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the chambers. Thank you.
Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 385-20(1), 2026-2027 Capital Estimates, Department of Finance. Does the Minister of Finance wish to bring witnesses into the chambers?
Thank you, please, Mr. Chair.
Does the committee agree?
