Robert Hawkins

Okay, well, in a construction-type contract where we’re building, say, a warehouse, by way of example, just to make life simple, and the warehouse is $2 million – perhaps not unlike the one that’s proposed in Tuktoyaktuk, $1 million planning, $1 million in construction fees, or something like that. A $2 million project on a warehouse. If a southern company won this bid, what would their deposit be if they couldn’t get bonding, and if a local company out of Tuktoyaktuk wanted to do this project and they couldn’t get bonding, what type of deposit would be in that range?

I’m just trying to get a sense here is Public Works being stuck with a responsibility where the users of the system, in the sense that the users of the power who are consuming the power are not responsible, and yet Public Works gets to wear the dirty laundry and make up the shortfall. In the last three years this particular area would have been budgeted with the department. How has the consistency been for the department to be able to pay these bills without having to require to move money from other program areas, et cetera, in order to make up any particular shortfall? And if they have had...

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that we report progress.

---Carried

Why on large contracts – and I’m not going to try to be too specific or we’d be here all day – do we have a policy that it’s only bond versus deposit?

What type of authority do we have to provide direction on this particular one? The reason I say that is because if Public Works actually has to pick up the cost and there’s a shortfall, it looks like it’s Public Works’ fault as opposed to whoever is creating the overconsumption, or I’ll call it poor management of our assets and utilities. That said, it looks like Public Works has to be the mop-up, but what authority do they have to lean back into the departments?

I guess I’m just after continuous, sort of, similarities there in the sense of continuous play. If we do this, it is one thing. But, no, I think I have enough information on this area, so no need to probe any further. Thank you.

In some cases do we require more in the context of the value of a bond versus a cash deposit and, if so, what are the circumstances contrived around that situation?

Staying away from dollar value because it doesn’t really work on power bills or, for example, oil bills. It’s rather to start on a consumption level analysis, that way you know what is considered a baseline of fairness, because those other things change. They fluctuate. Does Public Works and Services set any communication tools up based on consumption levels based of these types of consumables that Public Works and Services at the end of the day picks up the bill for and the responsibilities held within the department has actually been taken away? Does Public Works and Services have any type...

I’m not sure that I agree with the distinction. I mean, I would say that building maintenance, operation maintenance is somewhat identical to this and it’s split per usage, so based on percentage. If you have mixed usage, it would be based on mixed usage. Other governments do this. The federal government does this. Any organization using common area space would do this. You ask anybody in a condominium, they pay per square footage on their condo fees on common usage space.

I’m just curious why we wouldn’t do this on one but yet on TSC we do a direct chargeback. To me, it’s a paradox. As well as...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a drilldown on some of these problems here a little further. Would the Minister provide his definition, or I should say his department’s definition of using a bond versus a deposit? So maybe if he could divide the two, explain what they are and why you would use one over the other.